[NCNCA] New Upgrade guidelines

Tad Borek tadborek at pacbell.net
Thu Feb 14 12:54:36 PST 2008 

(I'll try sending as plain-text...)

I agree with Chris that all 5s should run separately whenever feasible, 
and that's the point of the category. It's a different kind of race but 
we've run the Tam Hill Climb that way the past few years. Some 
complaints about not being able to do teamwork with 4's teammates -- but 
isn't that kind of the point? Have fun, pick up the bike-race vibe, do a 
few and upgrade. We needed two 5's fields though to fit everyone, don't 
know if all races can swing that without combining some other fields.

Most of what you described is in the rules already though -- only 
nominal prizes (T shirt) are allowed in 5s right? And 5 to 4 is an 
experience upgrade based on races & possibly clinics. So it's mainly a 
question of whether to allow grouping 5's and 4's, as part of the rules. 
While that makes a lot of sense in NCNCA to split them out I don't think 
that would fly as a USCF rule. When I go to other districts, I realize 
how much we live in Bike Race Disneyland - most events are much smaller 
in much of the US so they need to combine to run the race. Even here 
it's good for a promoter to have the flexibility to mix 4/5 fields. When 
they get too big any promoter will split them out - and isn't that the 
way it's been going the last few years?

-Tad

CRC


Jim Volsansky wrote:
> Ding ding ding ding, We have a winner!
>
> Chris you've pretty much nailed it on the head. This
> is exactly the program we've (EBC crit) been running 2
> years straight at our crit.
>  From the promotional side of the world, it really
> doesn't make a numbers difference when you get down to
> it. Having a 4's only field allow for 100 riders which
> more than makes up for the smaller 5's field of 50. In
> a sense this makes it doubly safe smaller pack for the
> 5's, and no 5's in wiht the 4's. everybody wins.
>
> Jim
> Race director of EBC crit.
>
> --- Chris Black <cblackride at aol.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Speaking of upgrades:
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it is time to revisit the male racing
>> categories. A few of us can remember when the
>> beginner category was 4. Category 5 was introduced
>> to give new riders a chance to race, with no prizes,
>> without the prospect of being pulled in a criterium
>> after one lap. I vividly remember being left behind
>> at the starting line in the Merced Criterium (my
>> first race). And yes, we had down tube shifters and
>> toe clips and straps. I was in the second group and
>> we were pulled after something like 12 laps.
>> Experiences like that cause some people to quit, and
>> never return to bicycle racing. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, a lot of races group the 4's and 5's together.
>> Why even bother having category 5 if we are going to
>> make the beginners ride with more experienced guys?
>> The whole point of cat 5 is go get racing experience
>> and make races safer. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I know this will not be popular with promoters, but
>> I am calling for new (actually the original intent)
>> way to provide races for beginners. 
>>
>> 1. Category 5 cannot be combined with any other
>> category.
>>
>> 2. Category 5 riders cannot win prizes of any value.
>> No primes.
>>
>> 3. This would prevent races with "Master 35+ 4,5."
>> If you are a 5, you race with the 5's. To keep
>> promoters happy, they could have a Master Cat 5
>> race.
>>
>> 4. Completion of a certain number of races results
>> in an automatic upgrade.
>>
>> 5. Skills clinics and coaches recommendations would
>> be considered for 5 to 4 upgrades.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks everyone for your time. What do you think?
>>
>>
>>  Chris Black
>> Morgan Stanley/24 Hour Fitness/ Specialized Cycling
>> Team
>> San Luis Obispo, CA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jan Luke-Hamasaki <Luke2 at ix.netcom.com>
>> To: 'Casey Kerrigan' <casey at caseykerrigan.com>;
>> ncnca at ncnca.org
>> Sent: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:46 am
>> Subject: Re: [NCNCA] New Upgrade guidelines
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Casey,
>> I received an email regarding times and distances
>> for cat one upgrades. I am
>> inclined to allow cat ones to use a 60 minute crit
>> for points. Do you have a
>> strong feeling about this one way or the other?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ncnca-bounces+luke2=ix.netcom.com at ncnca.org
>> [mailto:ncnca-bounces+luke2=ix.netcom.com at ncnca.org]
>> On Behalf Of Casey
>> Kerrigan
>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:55 PM
>> To: ncnca at ncnca.org
>> Subject: [NCNCA] New Upgrade guidelines
>>
>> Ok folks the USAC has changed the upgrade
>> guidelines. Everyone who  
>> might be interested in upgrading should go to
>> http://www.usacycling.org/forms/USAC_rulebook.pdf 
>>   and download the pdf and review the new
>> guidelines. It will take me  
>> a little time to get the NCNCA upgrade FAQ page
>> updated.
>>
>> Basically the USAC adopted a form of the NCNCA
>> alternative points  
>> system for all categories. All categories will now
>> get the same points  
>> schedule for races. The number of places that get
>> points and the  
>> number of points will change based on the field
>> size.
>>
>> In Crits and circuit races if the starting field has
>> 5-10 riders then  
>> the top 3 finishers get 3/2/1 upgrade points. For
>> fields of 11-12 the  
>> top 4 finishers get 4/3/2/1 upgrade points. for
>> 21-50 riders the top 6  
>> get 5/4/3/2/1 points and for 50+ fields the top 6
>> get 7/5/4/3/2/1 just  
>> like before.
>>
>> For road races the points schedule goes like this
>>
>> 5-10 riders 3/2/1, 11-20 riders 7/5/4/3/2/1, for
>> 21-50 riders  
>> 8/6/5/4/3/2/1 and for 50+ riders 10/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1
>>
>> So basically there are a lot more points to be had
>> in road races now.  
>> Also if a road race isn't long enough to qualify for
>> upgrade points  
>> the race can still earn points under the
>> Crit/circuit race points  
>> schedule if the RR is as long or longer than the
>> Crit/Circuit race Min  
>> distance.
>>
>> For Cat 3 to 2 upgrades and 2 to 1 upgrades the
>> stage race GC upgrade  
>> points also have various points based on field size.
>> For 3 to 2  
>> upgrades it should be noted that riders are limited
>> to getting a Max  
>> of 15 point from a single event ( ie even though the
>> points schedule  
>> says a rider gets 20 points for winning the GC in a
>> race with 50 or  
>> more riders you can only apply 15 of those points
>> towards an upgrade  
>> to Cat 2).
>>
>> Also new are the Max number of points  a Cat 3 or
>> Cat 2 rider earn  
>> before they get an automatic upgrade. Cat 3s will
>> not earn an  
>> automatic upgrade if they get 40 upgrade points in a
>> 12 month period  
>> and Cat 2 will get an automatic upgrade if they get
>> 50 points in a 12  
>> month period.
>>
>> All upgrade requests will be judged against the new
>> upgrade guidelines  
>> so riders who may have been turned down for an
>> upgrade recently may  
>> now qualify, especially if they have results in road
>> races in fields  
>> with 11 or more riders.
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
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