[NCNCA] Women's Races

Wed Apr 30 15:02:30 PDT 2008

OK I'll drop my Politically positioning and state the obvious.

The Mens Pro 1/2 learned how to play together
The Mens Mstrs 1/2/3 learned how to play together
The Mens Mstrs 35+ 4/5 learned how to play together
The Mens Mstrs 45+/55+ learned how to play together 
The Elite 4/5 learned how to play together.
The Junior 17/18 learned how to play together, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc............

See the trend here?

Our choice here for the 35+4 and not to mix in the 5's is that those fields could support the number. 
Rick, You're mistaken on the 45+ or 55+ that is a combined field. 
Again E4 is that field can support a full field.

I'm sure I speak for most promoters in that we would gladly offer seperate fields to women if they can show that they can
fill those fields. Until then they will just have to deal with it. I won't appologise for our field selections, but I do offer compasion 
for the women in that we can't offer something more condusive to their wishes.

If you are a Wms 3 and have concerns about lesser skilled racers we do offer a P123 field.

We could start a whole new string on "why aren't there more 45+ 5 races or 55+ 5 races", heaven forbid
they combine 45+ 4/5 or 55+ 4/5. Oh wait they do that's an open category. 
Which this topic is a reality in that more of us are aging racers.

In closing I guess what I'm trying to say here is that as a promoter we want to offer fields that are fair and condusive to safe racing, 
but they have to be worth the effort to put the time into. Speaking for myself as Race Director I put probably put in a good 80~130 
hours before the first whisle, I don't track it and if I did I probably wouldn't do it. 
Nothing worse than standing by the course watching 10 riders go by when there could/should be 60 or more when I could have been home
an hour or 2 earlier enjoying time with my family.

Like others out there promoting the racing scene, I do it cuz I love this sport! 

Ladie(s) as promoter(s) take some responcibilty for the survival of you part of this great sport, suck it up race with the 4's show them how it's done so they become better racers, 3's mix it up with 1's and 2's and become better racers. When you can show that you can fill a field and I know you can, you'll get your 4's only race, or 3's only race.

nuff said
Jim

----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Warner <rickwarner at cycle-tours.com>
To: Ron Castia <zronn at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: NCNCA <ncnca at ncnca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 1:23:51 PM
Subject: Re: [NCNCA] Women's Races

Ron,

Picking separately does not resolve the issue for either category; the 3's
run a race with a pace and tactics that frustrates a lot of the 4's, and the
3's still have to ride with some women who may be doing their first race
ever.  Sort of a chicken and egg problem:  the women do not like the mixed
fields so they do not register, so the promoters see the fields as
speculative and either do not offer them next year or continue to mix the
fields.  One partial resolution is what was used at Madera in some of the
races; stagger the starts of the fields racing at the same time.  The 35+
women and women 4's were ecstatic with that solution, and I know some of the
women 3's were very happy to get a start after the P/1/2 group instead of
with them.

It is problem for promoters, I admit.  But some of the women get really
frustrated.  My wife will have, at most, one women's field in which she can
race at any one event.  I get to pick and choose.  At your EBC crit there
are 4 fields/3 races for which I could register:  E4, 35+ 4, 45+, or  55+.
For now I am picking fields based on which one' is most convenient,
time-wise, relative to my wife's races.  The disparity in opportunity is
frustrating to many of the women with whom I have spoken.

- rick

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Ron Castia <zronn at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> True, but if it were not such a speculative category for a promoter to
> run, the solution would be easy.
> We are picking the 3s and 4s separately.
>
> Ron
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Rick Warner <rickwarner at cycle-tours.com>
> To: Ron Castia <zronn at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: NCNCA <ncnca at ncnca.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:02:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [NCNCA] Women's Races
>
>
> One other aspect is both Cats Hill and EBC have combined 3/4 fields for
> the women.  A lot of the W4's I know hate it because the 3's run the race
> and they do not get a good experience, and a lot of the 3's I've talked to
> are happier without racing with some of the novices in the 4's for safety
> reasons.  I know women in both fields who tend to avoid the combined field
> races.  Some will relent in the end, but others will stay home or on the
> sidelines.
>
> - rick
>
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Ron Castia <zronn at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > OK, how about we stop taking everything the wrong way here?
> > It's not a slap at all, as matter of fact it could be seen as exactly
> > the opposite.
> >
> > If you did pre-register, thank you for being one of the few to show us
> > early that we won't have an empty course and for setting a good example.
> > Hold your head proud that you are setting a good example.
> >
> > Gordon and I are just saying, show us that our efforts to acknowledge
> > your needs will be returned in kind by a little pre-reg.
> > It let's a promoter have some idea of what to expect day of.
> >
> > There is a balance that needs to exist, it can't be a 1 way street.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ron (who will be hand picking the purple skittles out just for Eli)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: "Morgan, Cathy L." <cathy.morgan at pillsburylaw.com>
> > To: Ron Castia <zronn at sbcglobal.net>; NCNCA <ncnca at ncnca.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:03:50 AM
> > Subject: RE: [NCNCA] Women's Races
> >
> > Nice slap to those of us who have already registered. Just sayin'.
> > clm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ncnca-bounces+cathy.morgan=pillsburylaw.com at ncnca.org
> > [mailto:ncnca-bounces+cathy.morgan <ncnca-bounces%2Bcathy.morgan>=
> > pillsburylaw.com at ncnca.org] On Behalf
> > Of Ron Castia
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:02 AM
> > To: NCNCA
> > Subject: Re: [NCNCA] Women's Races
> >
> > It's not just Cat's Hill.
> > At the EBC  Criterium we are doing a 40% cash payback 10 deep for the
> > Pro 1/2/3 Women and have no entries, none, zero, zip. What's up with
> > that/
> >
> > We really wanted to support Women this year and offered 3 fields. We
> > have a total of 10 Women registered.
> >
> > If you are going to be the loudest to complain, it's a good idea to show
> > some love when your voice is acknowledged.
> > Right now, we are not seeing it and the Women's fields are hinting that
> > they may be just a big waste of our schedule time.
> > We could have easily just run more masters 4s and 3s and made some bank,
> > or gone home early.
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: "Gordon, Barry" <Bgordon at Structint.com>
> > To: NCNCA <ncnca at ncnca.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:59:27 AM
> > Subject: [NCNCA] Cat's Hill Women's Races
> >
> > NCNCA,
> >
> > Last year the LGBRC made the bad decision to replace the Women's 3/4
> > race with Master 45 race and the cycling community let us know in no
> > uncertain terms that we made a BIG mistake.  Therefore, we reinstated
> > the women's 3/4 race plus increased the cash prize list for the women's
> > 1/2/3 race from $600/6 places to $1000/10 places in 2008.  So what is
> > the response to our return to sanity?  We currently have 11 women
> > pre-registered for each race.  (As it stands now only one 1/2/3 woman
> > will place out of the money.)
> >
> > Lots of people last year complained about our dumb decision and we
> > listened to you.  In return, we hope that the cycling community would
> > have a change of heart and would support our women's races this
> > Saturday.
> >
> > On-line registration: www.catshill.org
> >
> > Thank you for your consideration.
> >
> > Barry Gordon, President
> > Los Gatos Bicycle Racing Club
> > Team Easton/SugarCRM/Specialized
> > A USA Cycling Club of the Year
> > www.lgbrc.org
> > 408-978-8200
> > bgordon at structint.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NCNCA discussion list
> > NCNCA at ncnca.org
> > http://lists.ncnca.org/mailman/listinfo/ncnca
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NCNCA discussion list
> > NCNCA at ncnca.org
> > http://lists.ncnca.org/mailman/listinfo/ncnca
> >
> >
> > ============================================================
> > The contents of this message, together with any attachments, are
> > intended only for the use of  the individual or entity to which they are
> > addressed and may contain information that is legally privileged,
> > confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or
> > copying of this  message, or any attachment, is strictly prohibited. If you
> > have received this message in error, please notify the original sender or
> > the Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman Help Desk at  Tel: 800-477-0770 x4860
> > immediately by telephone or by return E-mail and delete this message,  along
> > with any attachments, from your computer. Thank you.
> >  *
> > Internal Revenue Service regulations generally provide that, for the
> > purpose of avoiding federal tax penalties, a taxpayer may rely only on
> > formal written advice meeting specific requirements.  Any tax advice in this
> > message does not meet those requirements.  Accordingly, any such tax advice
> > was not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, for the
> > purpose of avoiding federal tax penalties that may be imposed on you or for
> > the purpose of promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any
> > tax-related matters.
> > ============================================================
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NCNCA discussion list
> > NCNCA at ncnca.org
> > http://lists.ncnca.org/mailman/listinfo/ncnca
> >
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
NCNCA discussion list
NCNCA at ncnca.org
http://lists.ncnca.org/mailman/listinfo/ncnca